EPISODE 8

In This Episode

In Episode 4, the family shared Kristal’s second-to-last phone with the UAV team. That’s the only one they have in their possession. Now Payne asks some hard questions about Kristal’s latest phone… the one she was using when she disappeared. Where has it been for the last two years?

Rob: 00:00 Previously on Up and Vanished.

Eli: 00:05 She went to Crestone, Colorado, which is known to be a big spiritual gathering place. It's just such a tiny, isolated place. It's way out in the mountains.

Eli: 00:16 After a couple of days of not hearing from her, and I was calling her, and no reply, I definitely had a bad feeling.

Jim McCaplin: 00:24 The closest policeman when you pickup a phone and dial 911 is in Saguache, a 45-minute drive away. So for the first 45 minutes that you're dealing with some nutcase, you're on your own.

David: 00:37 No one really knows what happened to Kristal. We want to know. We all want to know.

Dan Warwick: 00:44 The majority of the people up here, I think, are very good people who came up here for the peace and tranquility of this area, but we do have, I'm going to say the trust fund kids and things like that that have come up here that are not responsible, that mommy and daddy didn't want them around them because they're such a pain in their ass, so they send them down here for everybody else to deal with.

Ara McDonald: 01:09 She was late for rent, and that's when I went upstairs and at first, she didn't answer, but I knocked a few more times, and then she peeked out, and she came in the hallway. Her whole face was blotchy and red, and she'd been crying and looked like a mess. I asked her what was wrong. She said that she had gone to a party the night before, and she was pretty sure that someone had drugged her, and she was pretty sure that she'd been raped.

Eli: 01:37 There was only one thing that everyone in town kept saying that matched up, that was kind of the common tone, and it was these guys that she was hanging out with. Everyone said they were bad news.

Chris Halsne: 01:50 There is a drug culture that's hidden in Crestone.

Eli: 01:55 Why are these guys hiding? I would like to hear from these guys, man. If there's any way you can find them, get a hold of them, question them, ask them some questions.

Crestone BF: 02:05 I don't know if I want to talk about it, man, on a phone or ... I'm kind of paranoid about it a little bit. The last actual time I saw her, we got into an argument because she wasn't going to sleep. I was worried about her. She was trying to tell me there was going to be a bunch of people over there, but she couldn't remember. I've never seen her that scared. She told me that she was held there against her will. She thought she might've gotten raped. Once I started poking around, I figured out that she went back to Catfish's.

Phebe: 02:37 Mama said, "Don't go down to the river, and stay away from Catfish John." John, his name is Catfish John. That's what they call him.

Maurice: 02:47 Catfish was trying to distance himself from Kristal, but he was trying to distance himself from anything to do with her, and he was clearly lying. He's definitely a person of interest and should be until he's absolutely cleared.

Unknown Women: 03:02 Underneath her post, some guy got on there. I don't know. He apparently was here, and he's like, "I don't understand why we're still talking about this. I told Wayne Clark that that girl was murdered, and she was loaded in this vehicle by Catfish and driven to this area and thrown in a mineshaft." I told them. We've all told them what happened to her that day, and they haven't done shit. And I don't get what's wrong with Saguache Police Department.

Chris Halsne: 03:36 There are hundreds of mine shafts and crevices. Unless somebody gave law enforcement very specific intel, the chances that somebody would find her are very limited.

Unknown Women: 03:50 Brian told me the backstory of their relationship, and their backstory of their relationship is when Kristal was teaching at Western State College, she had Akasha. And when she had Akasha with her, Brian was watching Akasha for her, and he lived with her. He ended up crashing her car. Kristal was very upset about that, and they had a falling out.

Cindy Santi: 04:14 Brian showed up, and he said to me, "You need to call Kristal." And he goes, "She's very upset. I totaled her car." He totaled her car out there in the Baca. He thought it was real funny. She says, "I think he did it on purpose." He did it on purpose.

Payne Lindsey: 04:32 Shortly after Kristal went missing, an anonymous person had a phone call with Dready Brian.

Dready Brian: 04:37 I could've swore she was at the last drum circle. We weren't super close. I wouldn't know where her specific spots would be, you know what I mean? She did go over to Catfish's. We talked about that, where it was four or five days, and they had to get up at like three in the morning or whatever, but she did go to Catfish's after that.

Payne Lindsey: 04:59 The same anonymous source received a message from Catfish. I would share the messages and was able to validate their authenticity. The anonymous source says this: "Have you heard any rumors? What do you think happened to her?" Catfish says, "I heard so many rumors, it is interfering. Brian. That's all I can say at the moment other than I will do anything to help." The source says, "Oh, wow. Why do you say Brian?" Catfish says, "He told me he did it. I told the CBI," and he showed his confession on Messenger.

Payne Lindsey: 06:05 From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host Payne Lindsey.

Payne Lindsey: 06:14 Of the many stories we've heard, there's one that seems to stand out the most — the story about a gold van. This story originated from a Facebook message sent by a Crestone local to Wayne Clark, a Saguache County deputy in charge of the case. To refresh your memory, here's the original message.

Crestone Local: 06:31 Hi, Wayne. I know we haven't met, but I know you're the local cop in Crestone, which my girlfriend and I really appreciate. About an hour ago tonight, my roommates and I witnessed something we felt was suspicious enough to report to you. We live down Enchanted Lane and passed our neighbor coming home from town tonight, and I believe his name is Catfish, though I have never personally met him.

Crestone Loval: 07:01 He was out in the middle of the pouring rain by his car and appeared to have a shovel leaning against a golden 1980s, early '90s minivan. He also had a bundle laying on the ground that appeared to be something human size, next to the open backdoor of his van. We don't know what this bundle was, but it was certainly suspicious. Again, we don't want to make false accusation about anything to anyone, but we were all concerned enough to decide to contact you. This was out about 8:30 tonight, and we all witnessed this strange occurrence.

Payne Lindsey: 07:42 Since airing that story, I've received numerous accounts of other sightings of gold vans. Everyone seems to be on high alert.

Unknown woman 2: 07:54 It's about an hour away from Crestone. It's in the same county, and nobody goes up there. That's the first time I've ever seen anybody there, and I've been there several times. Yeah, and I just saw a van.

Unknown woman 2: 08:15 I mean, it just kind of rang true because a lot of people were saying an Astro-style van with curtains and stuff. And I was like, "Oh, I saw one of those next to a mine." My friend owns a cabin up in the valley. She knew about it and was taking me there to go try to find crystals. And it's called Crystal Hill Mine.

Unknown woman 2: 08:44 We left the cabin. We went to go mine for crystals, and when we pulled up, there was a van parked just outside of the gates for the mine. I mean, it's an Astro-style ... I don't know. My friend said that they remember it having out-of-state plates, like Arizona, but I don't remember that. There was definitely people inside of it. The curtains were moving around, and there was people peeking out at us, but we never saw them. But they were looking at us like they didn't want us there. We just kind of felt it out, walked past the van, and they didn't get out, and they kind of hung out inside the van the whole time we were there.

Unknown woman 2: 09:34 It was like a hundred degrees outside, so I don't know how they were in that van. Just hanging out in there, kept peeking out to see if we were gone yet. I mean, it just seemed a little suspicious. I just thought that maybe they were trespassing, too, and didn't want to get caught, too, but now that I'm thinking about, I'm like ... I mean, we obviously were too ... most people would say high. It's the same thing. I don't know if this means anything. Probably nothing. Throwing it out there.

Payne Lindsey: 10:11 For months now, Kristal's family has been hearing the same stories. Here's Eli.

Eli: 10:16 A couple of the neighbors that were neighbors to one of the suspects, they said that the night that this all happened, they had seen them take out what looked like a body rolled up in a blanket and put it in the back of his van, and then he drove off in the direction where there's known to be mine shafts. He was gone for three hours, was what I believe. And then when he came back, he was empty-handed. He didn't have that no more.

Payne Lindsey: 10:48 Here's Rodney.

Rodney: 10:49 When I read that post, it just doesn't quite jibe with what they're telling me. Catfish was standing out behind his van with a shovel and what looked like a body wrapped in white in the pouring rain. And what I've been trying to get is corroboration for some of these things that we're hearing about.

Payne Lindsey: 11:17 After months of seeking an official comment from the witness of this gold van, he finally got back to me. And to the best of his recollection, this is exactly what he remembers. He sent me this is a message.

Rodney: 11:35 I got a statement I'm going to copy and paste to you. If you've already read Wayne's message from me, you should already know most of this. Just give me a sec; it's kind of long.

Rodney: 11:45 I'm driving home from picking my roommate up from work at the bar, and we're heading back home to our house. This is probably around nine-ish. This guy named Catfish was our neighbor. We pass his house, and it's in the middle of the night, pouring absolute balls. There's a golden, maybe dark silver, older '90s or so, squarish van. Looked like an old Mercury or something with a hexagonal logo. It wasn't new or nice at all. There was one person standing outside of it with a lantern and another standing over something wrapped in bedsheets and duct taped. I mean, it was exactly the same size of a human body. There's a shovel literally leaning against his van. And again, it's in the middle of the night, pouring rain.

Rodney: 12:33 We got suspicious, went back to my house, split into two cars, and tried to follow him. He booked it up to this road called Twin Trees or something like that. It's at the end of Camino Del Rey. When we got there, we were a couple minutes late because we had to jump in cars at my house. He was flying back down that road into the valley. We tried to follow him, whoever the fuck was in the van, but we couldn't catch a minivan in a sports car. This person was doing like 90 miles per hour downhill in the rain. It was nuts.

Rodney: 13:06 The next day, people that Catfish had hired ... and his girlfriend were over at Catfish's house cleaning everything out of it. I mean, everything. All the furniture, ripped up all the carpets, every piece of anything that had ever been in his house. It looked like a barren wasteland when they were done, which took about a week.

Rodney: 13:28 Look, this is all I saw and all I know.

Payne Lindsey: 13:48 Since Episode 1, in many ways, the podcast has reignited the search for Kristal. Even people like Mikey, Kristal's best friend, have taken it upon themselves to go to Crestone to find answers.

Mikey: 14:02 I went up there to try to not step on too many toes, and I just told people I went up there for closure, not to ask questions. People could understand closure a little bit better. I've been depressed and then happy and then better. Me going up there gave me closure to snap out of my depression, because I felt like I haven't done much because for two years, it was really hard for me. Going up there and meeting the people that she connected with and the people that cared about her made me feel a lot better.

Mikey: 14:32 That town, again, it has so much light, but then there's [inaudible 00:14:35] dark. I told my mom about this. I told her, I was like, "I don't trust anybody." All these people are scared, and I'm not fucking scared. I want this to be settled. I also felt bad that I didn't know that she was doing drugs. Ever since we've been friends, she would party, but never hardcore drugs.

Mikey: 14:58 I've dealt with knowing that Kristal's dead, but there's a part of me now is like, I don't know anymore. She could be in the sex trafficking. Who knows? We haven't got enough evidence, but there's enough people saying that something bad happened to her. So yeah, it's been crazy the last two weeks. I feel like Kristal's been inside of me. So my dreams have been a lot more intense. It's been pretty crazy.

Payne Lindsey: 15:30 While in Crestone, Mikey overheard a new rumor that's been circling around.

Mikey: 15:34 In a small town, everybody talks. I was going up there thinking Catfish was there. I didn't know that he already left.

Payne Lindsey: 15:41 Rumor has it that Catfish has skipped town after being there for almost two decades.

Mikey: 15:46 He just moved out a month ago. That's what I grasped from it. One story is that the dad came down there and made him leave, and then the other story is that Catfish was wanting to leave. So I don't know. They already gutted his house out. At least that's what I was told.

Payne Lindsey: 16:05 Well, if it was true, there was only one way to find out, and that was to go there myself.

Payne Lindsey: 16:13 Okay, right here. Is this really a road?

Meredith S.: 16:24 Oh, my god.

Payne Lindsey: 16:24 Enterprise is like, "Where did you guys go?"

Meredith S.: 16:28 I think-

Payne Lindsey: 16:28 Maybe just go as fast as you can.

Mike Rooney: 16:29 No.

Payne Lindsey: 16:32 Okay. The roads far out in the Baca Grande aren't real roads. They're mostly gravel and rocks.

Meredith S.: 16:40 That's the gutted one. It's gutted.

Payne Lindsey: 16:43 You can see right into the-

Mike Rooney: 16:43 You see there's a camper van outside of it?

Payne Lindsey: 16:43 Yeah, yeah.

Meredith S.: 16:43 Yeah. And someone described it as a cabin one time.

Payne Lindsey: 16:47 Turn around.

Meredith S.: 16:48 Cabin style.

Payne Lindsey: 16:49 Slow down.

Payne Lindsey: 16:51 After a long, bumpy trek, we found the house we were looking for.

Meredith S.: 16:54 There's a RV on the top of the-

Payne Lindsey: 16:58 There's no one in there.

Meredith S.: 16:58 It's definitely gutted. I mean, you can see straight through the house, which is weird.

Payne Lindsey: 17:07 He's definitely out of town.

Payne Lindsey: 17:11 Looks like this rumor is true.

Chris Halsne: 17:19 Investigative reporters and detectives do some similar work, but rarely is it all right. That's part of the process. You go down this path, and it may be a dead end or it's not true or it's just a rumor, and then you move off to the next thing, to the next thing. You have to add up a lot of truths in order to get to facts. There are so many rumors to weed through. These kind of cases are super, super difficult.

Chris Halsne: 17:52 Isn't it a little frustrating that you know the names of the people everybody in town believes had a hand in her disappearance, yet you have detectives who, for some reason, either haven't got that same information from those individuals, maybe they just aren't saying. But it's frustrating to not see some transparency in how the detectives are working this case.

Chris Halsne: 18:21 There are reasons to keep secrets, and they do it all the time. Right? There are surprises during interviews. They have a piece of information, they want to see how that suspect reacts. So there's things that they hold. But it is frustrating from the outside looking in to not understand the process. They should know more than you know, and maybe they do, but it isn't apparent, so it's a conundrum for sure.

Payne Lindsey: 19:00 Since the beginning, there's one detail in Kristal's case that's always puzzled me. And throughout this series, behind the scenes, I've been looking into it. It has to do with Kristal's cell phone. You may remember early on that Kristal's father Rodney gave me a cell phone from her apartment in Crestone, but there was a catch. This wasn't her most recent phone. It was an older one, and the phone itself reflected that. The last outgoing calls and messages were from April 2016, and Kristal went missing in July.

Payne Lindsey: 19:26 So what about her other phone? Wouldn't that be a key piece of evidence in this case? Her last outgoing calls and messages? Her state of mind? You would certainly think so. But since the first time I examined this case, I've received many conflicting stories about the cell phone. Today, I'm going to walk you through exactly what I found. Ara McDonald was Kristal's landlord, and she was the first person to enter her apartment right after she was reported missing.

Ara McDonald: 19:58 I called up the police station. I reported her missing. A deputy came out. I think that at first they didn't think it was a big deal, but then they realized that someone else had called in about it, too, so then he decided to come out. I let him into her place. We found her phone, her bag, her tobacco. The window was open. The fan was on in the window. Some of the lights were still on. It looked like she had just left and had every intention of coming back.

Payne Lindsey: 20:30 Where was her phone?

Ara McDonald: 20:31 Her phone was on a counter over by the kitchenette, and we couldn't find the charger.

Payne Lindsey: 20:40 When Rodney and Eli learned Kristal was missing, her cell phone was one of the first things on their mind.

Eli: 20:46 Rodney and I were really trying to find out where that phone went. That was a big piece of the puzzle. We just wanted to know what was the last thing on her phone. Maybe there was something there. And I remember that was one of the first things we were asking.

Payne Lindsey: 21:03 Then Ara told me a strange story about an unknown man that stopped by Kristal's apartment right after she was reported missing.

Ara McDonald: 21:09 He was a young kid. He's really young and handsome, has long, straight hair. He's the kid that showed up in the courtyard who was genuinely really ... He was the one friend that was genuinely really concerned that kept on coming back. And I could tell he was afraid that he was inadvertently responsible, like he should've protected her or something. I can't think of his name right now. I can't believe I can't remember his name. Maybe I'm not supposed to.

Payne Lindsey: 21:44 But when Rodney and Eli became involved, they started hearing strange rumors.

Eli: 21:48 The first time we went up there, we went up there to get the phone because, from what we heard from a rumor, apparently, someone had broke into her apartment and stole her phone. One of these guys broke into her apartment and stole her phone. So we go up there, and it turns out that Ara had gotten into the apartment and gave the phone to someone. This part's fuzzy.

Payne Lindsey: 22:18 That didn't sound like something Ara would do, so I called her.

Ara McDonald: 22:18 I was actually downstairs in my courtyard, and he showed up drunk in my courtyard. And he'd been drinking, and he wanted to know where Kristal was, and he was upset. He was almost crying, saying that ... He said he was pretty sure something bad had happened to Kristal, and he wanted to know if I had seen her. I said, "No." Then I mentioned to him that she had told me that she went to that party and that she'd been given a bunch of drugs, and she said that she'd been raped. And he said, "I know that party that she went to."

Ara McDonald: 22:50 He kind of alluded ... I wasn't clear on what he was saying. Kind of sounded like he was at that party. Maybe earlier on in the party rather than later on in the party. I have no idea, but he did say he did know what kind of drugs he had given her that night. I said, "Can I call up the Sheriff's Department and report what you're telling me?" He said, "Yeah. I'll even to them myself." And I could tell that he really was afraid to and didn't want to, but he was willing to do it for Kristal.

Ara McDonald: 23:24 I said, "Hold on. Do you care if I call up the Sheriff's Department." He said, "No. I'll even talk to them myself." I called the offline number, and I said, "I've got a guy here who says that he was at the party that she said she was at, and he knows what they had given her." And I listed, I mean, literally word for word, he told me exactly what they had given her. It was a whole, long list. It was like eight or nine different things. And I repeated what he told me word for word while he was right in front of me to the lady on the phone.

Ara McDonald: 23:58 All I know is that the cops came to her apartment three times. The first time was with Tyler, with me and Jeremy standing right there.

Payne Lindsey: 24:08 Tyler was the deputy on duty in Crestone at the time, and Jeremy was Kristal's neighbor.

Ara McDonald: 24:14 The second time, Wayne came with some other guy. I let them in, and then I asked them if they needed me, and they said, "No." And they were in there a long ... for maybe an hour.

Payne Lindsey: 24:24 Wayne is another deputy from the Sheriff's Department, who, according to the sheriff himself, has been the one in charge of Kristal's case and investigation since then.

Ara McDonald: 24:32 And then the third time was when Wayne escorted Kristal's family and myself up there so that they could start dealing with her stuff.

Payne Lindsey: 24:40 This would be Rodney and Eli.

Ara McDonald: 24:42 So as far as I know, they only went up there three times.

Payne Lindsey: 24:46 But there was something else that one of Kristal's neighbors witnessed.

Ara McDonald: 24:49 There was a weird thing that happened. Someone, I think it was [inaudible 00:24:54] upstairs came down to the kitchen, and he could've sworn that he heard someone softly walking around in Kristal's apartment, which I thought was odd. He actually thought that she was back because of that. And I said, "No. She's not back. She's still missing. What do you mean you heard someone walking around up there?" The only people that had the code besides her was me, as far as I know, unless she gave her code to friends or a boyfriend or whatever.

Payne Lindsey: 25:24 But what about the unknown guy that stopped by Kristal's apartment?

Ara McDonald: 25:28 He kind of told some tall tales about getting into her apartment and how he had found stuff in there, but there's no way that that could possibly happen because her lock was a code lock. He said that he was trying to find her, and he was joking about how he'd been up to Kristal's apartment, looking through her phone.

Payne Lindsey: 25:53 Kind of a weird joke if you ask me.

Eli: 25:55 There's no signs of breaking in or nothing. There's only one way in, and it's on the second floor. There's only one door in and out.

Payne Lindsey: 26:02 And according to Rodney ...

Rodney: 26:03 I did not see the computer or the phone.

Eli: 26:08 At first, we were freaking out. We were like, "Well, whoever has the phone is clearly deleting evidence. This guy had it. The same guy ... He's good with computers, I guess.

Rodney: 26:21 If memory serves me correctly, and I'm pretty sure it does in this case, he mentioned he had somebody that he was having trying to break into the computer or get into the computer or something to that effect.

Payne Lindsey: 26:36 Then all of a sudden, Ara remembered the kid's name.

Ara McDonald: 26:39 Matthew. It was Matthew, the kid's name.

Payne Lindsey: 26:40 Matthew. And who's he?

Ara McDonald: 26:44 The kid that showed up in the courtyard who was super upset about her being missing and told me a bunch of information about what drugs she was on and where that party was at.

Payne Lindsey: 26:55 Rodney remembers Matt, too.

Rodney: 26:55 We followed him out to where Matt lived. Matt lived in a small motor home. He was having Matt try to break into the computer, which I thought was kind of funny. Man, this is Wayne.

Payne Lindsey: 27:09 Rodney recalled a time when Wayne, the local deputy, took him and Eli to Matt's house to retrieve Kristal's phone and computer.

Rodney: 27:16 He said, "I want to talk to him first," and we stood off to the side, maybe 30, 40 feet away. He was going to have this guy try to break into it or get into it or something, something, something. Because I guess Matt is pretty good on computers.

Payne Lindsey: 27:33 According to Rodney, Wayne drove him and Eli out to his trailer, and he remembers Wayne saying something along the lines of ...

Rodney: 27:39 "He'll do this for me because" ... "He'll do this." That sort of thing. I took it that he had a fear of Wayne. And I would, too, if law enforcement busted me and da da da da da da da. But you could tell he was uncomfortable.

Payne Lindsey: 27:59 He also remembers Matt acting very strangely.

Rodney: 28:02 He was somewhat skittish.

Eli: 28:04 The most suspicious-looking behavior ever. Plus his body language. He was so clearly nervous about something. That's why it was really, really suspicious to us that he would have her cell phone.

Rodney: 28:19 Now, could that be because of the Kristal situation? Is he somehow connected to it in some way, shape, or form? I think he knew of Kristal. That's my understanding. And I don't know if they were friends or what. I guess I remember thinking it was kind of weird that they're having someone other than their own law enforcement people try to get into the computer. And I remember asking him, "How come you're not having CBI?" And never really got any answers. I just never could get a firm answer on something like that.

Payne Lindsey: 28:52 The story that Matt had Kristal's cell phone was seemingly everywhere. Even friends knew about it.

Red: 28:58 He's a computer guy, too. He knows how to fix shit. And you know what? That's crazy. I can't believe that you know that, but I totally even ... I forgot about that, that he did get let into the apartment and got the phone. If I remember right, I was at the bar, and somehow that did come up. And he was like, "Oh, I went to go get the phone to try and find evidence," or some ... I think I remember hearing that. That definitely is strange. Very strange.

Rodney: 29:25 When you start putting some of these things together, the conspiracy stuff can start getting a little wacky there. They're either lying or telling me something different. When we went to visit Matt, it was because Wayne had said that he was having him try to get into or break into her computer. It raised flags for me. Why is he doing this?

Rodney: 29:49 It's going to be kind of hard for Wayne to say, "Oh, no," because then all they have to do is ask me, and I'm under oath, I'll answer that question. I mean, the best thing for Wayne would be to say, "Yeah, I did that. I fucked up." The coverup is usually worse than the crime. I don't want to think bad about anybody there, but after a bit, you start [inaudible 00:30:11] stuff running around your head, then it'd be very easy to say, "Well, they might've done it because they were trying to cover a trail or trying to coverup their unprofessional or incompetent actions."

Payne Lindsey: 30:25 I called Wayne to ask him about this strange story. What did he remember? According to Wayne, he has no knowledge of anybody besides law enforcement ever having possession of these items. I asked him about the trip they made to Matt's house with Eli and Rodney. Why'd they go there? Wayne does recall this event, but he remembers it differently. He told me that he made a personal trip to Matt's house about a completely separate phone issue, something he wanted him to work on. And while he was there, Rodney and Eli sat in the car.

Payne Lindsey: 30:55 When I pressed for more details in this story, Wayne kept referring me to another officer, Tyler, who coincidentally no longer works on the force. I've reached out to Tyler on multiple occasions, but I still haven't heard back. Regardless of what happened to Kristal's phone or computer, we now know they are currently in possession of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. After all these crazy stories, I called the CBI to confirm for myself, and they do have it.

Payne Lindsey: 31:22 In a missing persons case, the last calls or messages on their phone can be crucial evidence. And though I have never seen the phone myself, Ara, Kristal's landlord, recalls what she saw on her phone the first time she went into her apartment.

Ara McDonald: 31:34 We borrowed a charger from Jeremy next door and plugged it in, and he put all the messages on speakerphone, so I stood there and listened to all the messages. He skipped through a lot of them. Most of the calls to Kristal in the front were people being worried about her.

Ara McDonald: 31:53 It had this voice identification robot voice that says, "This call is to," or, "This call is from." The last bunch of phone calls that she put out, "This call was at 8:35 p.m. from Catfish."

Meredith S.: 32:10 Up and Vanished in an investigative podcast told weekly, produced for Tenderfoot TV by Payne Lindsey, Mike Rooney, and me, Meredith Stedman, with new episodes every Monday. Executive producers Payne Lindsey and Donald Albright. Additional production by Resonate Recordings, as well as Mason Lindsey, Rob Ricotta, and Christina Dana. Our intern is Hallie Bedol. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia performed by Ezza Rose. Our cover art is by Trevor Isler. Special thanks to the team at Cadence13.

Meredith S.: 33:12 Visit us on social media via @upandvanished, or you can visit our website, upandvanished.com, where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying Up and Vanished, tell a friend, family member, or coworker about it. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.